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On a positive note, given your relative success Paids, in the report Zip posted recently it was said that AP is not used so much in the US due to toxicity considerations.
I don't think Vit C comes into that category- whatever the claims of Pauling et al didn't seem to produce!
Safest as a 'stop gap'- but lower levels of 'C' could well maintain the progress gained later.
With a clearer diagnosis , you will know better what you're dealing with also!
Pre-xactly Met!
A cheap , safe cure for gout and a rich chinese peasant -both equally unlikely, on current performances.
You must make allowance for a Brits' dark , ironic humour -and spelling come to that.
It's traditional after all!
G-p is probably in 'recess'- I hope he's enjoying the break… the tribe are filling in 😉
Have you tried Firefox browser , Meta?
On the BB front- that blacked out Limo that sweeps by could be a Chinese farmer getting rewarded for surviving the long march and staying close to the land ! Sharing, indeed…
It's an ill wind -etc. We users are too small a minority to affect the price, though 🙂
Any society that can add a toxic addition like Fluoride to drinking water under hack science and then blithely put up with it, has to be suspect. That the same species is plagued by gout seems almost incidental in its obscure cruelty.
Yes, money bends the truth as well as peoples lives.
Fred- You don't give your location or age, which would help a bit on this.
What stands out is your weight and recent losing of it.
Losing more than 2lbs a week ,as you are, is not usually recommended- though it is commendable in effort terms.
The loss of weight is going to add to the effects of AP- so you will be accelerating your UA residue clearance some. Hopefully you are now finding a reasonable balance.
Reducing your weight , over an extended period will help your joint pain, if caused by overwear.
There's no reason why you can't have multiple causes- gout is just more attention grabbing, as we know!
You probably have arthritis in your family, too!
I think your 'plan' is sound- *add something about long term weight loss goals-and stick to it. [2lbs/week max!]
This will reduce stress on joints and lower need for SUA reducers to stay any higher than you want.
Zip- I have to concur with Meta- my last batch produced 1.5 ltrs.
This time I used a closed lid ( no vent- glass cookware) and simmered low for the 1.5 hrs. req'd.
This , as before,using Black Turtle beans from local health food store (packed there)- from Chinese produced organic batch.
I accept your warnings about hyper UA -but I'm prepared to wait a while to see my attack rate stabilise. [hopefully !]
I'm still prepared to take AP as a long term guard- even in the absence of gout attacks if my figure doesn't get to around 6mg/dl.
Great Miles!
It will be instructive to get a SUA reading(s) after some time on BBB- and symptom free.
The tendency will surely be to forget to follow up -but without some feedback these home remedies will stay on the 'back shelf'- even if effective in certain cases.
My feeling (from reading up) is that BBB is good in the 'attack phase' but will not show any long term UA reduction- but I hope I'm wrong on this one!
It's down to you now 😉
Well ,UTube- No expert but certainly a fair share of gout over the years.
In some ways the pulling together of different background experience of 'the many' is an antidote to the well intentioned, but sometimes inadequate, ministrations of the medical world.
It has to be stated again- the legal responsibilty for health advice is with ones medical advisor- but that only goes as far as 'reasonable care' and stops short of 'side effects' responsibilties. These fall somewhere between the courtroom and the unspoken masses who 'do the meds'!
I would say- it takes time to get results, things are still settling down. Freds' attack isn't out of place as we all know (though I don't take AP)- and side effects usually recede on dose change.
Fred: It does seem like the your Dr. is on the case, even if a bit heavy on the doses- Zip would probably find his approach in your case as 'far too uncommon'. Very proactive, I would say- and trying to tread a difficult path on treatment for you!
The reason why 3 attacks seems the threshold for starting uriscoric drugs is exactly because the side effects are often more trouble than the illness. This is true of many drugs in specific cases.
So what I'm saying is: Bear with it a while- you're on track for a handle on your gout and getting tests to clear worries of side effects. Your UA is good- it will need time to pay off and flares are inevitable to some degree- your case rather bad ones.
Docs will rarely admit to side effects- as they can't be proven without a barrage of tests which are worse than stopping the offending drug.
Further they have no wish to cause harm- and therefore bound to be in denial.
They are caught between the grip of the law/procedure and big Pharma.
Stay strong, stick with medical advice – and in a week, I bet things will look better!
One of the problems with mega doses of Vit.C is that it tends to flush minerals from the body.
This is not a good long term policy for this reason , in my laymans view – BUT it may be helping you if your knee problem is Psuedo Gout, due to calcium deposits- rather than Gout.
This often presents at the knee and can be easily rolled up with gout 'proper', ie missed!
The water on its own would also help Gout.
You don't quote any UA test figures to date- so it will be good to hear more on your specialists' ongoing diagnosis.
As you don't mind these large doses of C right now- it could prove an interesting line of enquiry, which ever way it pans out.
Meta, Once you have posted anew -you should see an 'edit' button in the posts upper control panel. [In place of 'Send PM' button]
I think it's time limited- so don't delay too long.
If you're not seeing this option try using Firefox browser as an alternative- it is kept up to date and it's better than some other alternatives -for things that IE sometimes gets wonky whilst covering streaming etc. effectively.
Try changing view – in IE Tools to Compatibility mode first, as well.
* Edit update : FWIW- This edit is still live some time[>1 hr] later !!
Yes Meta- thaere's a lot of in depth research going on in the BB area. As usual ,in nature, stuff near to poisons is implicated- I believe there's significant cyanide in apple pips and no one's died from that yet –.
The iron connection is strong, and been discussed on here before.
I think men particularly have this excess Fe problem due to holding on to too much, unlike women during their lifetime.
I suppose someone suffering from anaemia would be a good control in this- as small changes in Fe uptake would show up quickly.
Incidence of people with anaemia + gout* would be an interesting check!
* throws up good overview of Gout anyway : http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/b…..tintr.html
and this comment about increased risk factors
[ from http://www.health24.com/medica…..,11830.asp ]
“Underlying diseases with a high turnover of cells (cancers – especially blood cancers and haemolytic anaemia) “
shows at least one particular type of anaemia is not mutually exclusive with gout.
All the same , this from your link:
“ Black beans also contain several antinutritional compounds (enzymatic inhibitors, haemaglutenins, saponins and phytic acid, etc.) “
-shows that they have a potent ability to inhibit nutritional pathways
– and we all know that this is a favourite 'culprit gateway' in Gouties' minds!
Yeah- that's about right Zip. Not sure how much a serious dosage is- 3' gulps' I gather 😉
If you like it raw- all to the good- Do you mash in the beans too?
This is a bit dodgy at attack time I would think!
Possibly, the inner and outer could cancel out , though!
On your regime of AlloP- maybe you won't really need it, anyway?
If it's any help- I had a shin scrape in the garden [earth bourne, I assume] 2 months ago that needed antibiotics from the hospital at midnight, 30 hours later- due to infectious swelling.
It has ONLY just healed, after care in dressing etc., and using antiseptic cream. There are loads of pathogens lurking out there and only when one gets an unholy grip does it get worrying- one good reason for overall good immune health- as that is the best protection.
Gout does tend to keep your eye on the ball in this regard- but nothing stops bad luck!
This is when the Drs. usually say ” There's a lot of IT about” meaning they sympathise – but expect you to ride it out.
I've found some evaporation occuring even with a lid.
At the end ,I top up by using hot water to flush the leftover beans and adding it in to the original broth.
It still looks thin,tbh but until i get [hope not] another bad attack can't test this- as I think that is when it comes into its own.
However having had BBB in small amounts 3 times this week -my toe joints have settled quite a lot.
Just the occasional early morning twang- not sure what that's all about. Maybe nerves waking up, only.
I get about 300ml from 100gm/litre start- so that would be 600ml for the standard recipe.
https://gout-pal.com/gout-p…..out/#p3002
See recent post on both alternative UA reduction and Colchicine comments at the end.
This is the most common drug for Gout easing- but it's not a straight painkiller so your previous high usage of Diclofenac may affect your response. I'm surprised you haven't already tried it!
For pain killing purpose – I use Codeine/Paracetamol dispersables quite effectively- but they can't stop the worst pain periods, tbh.
Whether bread affects gout is a moot question. Gout is so individual that what for one may be irrelevant can trigger an attack in another case.
I, personally, have found modern wheat a problem- mostly in the digestion area but affecting sleep, gastric balance and weight issues.
Try 'Spelt' as an alternative. it's a non hybridised traditional grain, not gluten free as such ,but better tolerated by many. It is expensive unless you bake your own- which I now do.
Adding Millett flour [~10%] will help alkalise the loaf but is very bland tasting.
[Try millett flakes in muesli also- but not too much again due to 'soapy' taste.]
Keep yeast,salt and sugar to a minimum [~ 50% of recipe amounts] and tolerate the heavier loaf style. It will take some weeks to notice the difference.
Let us know if you try it /have success. Feed back is important here.
@Richard Bell : Colchicine four times a day and try to get a handle on disolving the crystals
Bear in mind that the Colch. is to help reduce inflammation in attacks &/or to offset the effects of UA reduction drugs working, as they may well should, when causing flares.
Generally Colch. is at the one to two per day for prophalaxis, and not best taken permanently -or up to 8 [or more -for some brave types] over the course of one day, taken at clear intervals, as short blitz on the attacks' first 'assault phase' -as the immune system cranks up. it will be interesting to see what your medic advises on the tophi problem.
I would wait until your blood test result- I doubt from what you say that SUA will be normal, but that is no reason for excess worry.
This is a step by step approach and you can use specific advice from your doc. and general advice/support from here. The main thing is to get a strategy that suits your situation.
Vitamin C at 250 mg is marginal [a daily back up amount] and I doubt it will affect the issue. It is not a substitute for UA reducers. In very large amounts it is supposed to be good for so much- but I personally wouldn't take megadoses.
Fun1- you will see plenty of advice on here about reducing SUA.
If you are getting severe attacks and starting to lose work then I can't see why AP is so bad an option. It's effective and the serious side effects are in the few percent- from all I read.
I've only had one attack this year and I'm seriously considering the long term prognosis with tophi etc. without UA lowering therapy- so I think you know what is needed and you just need to be persuaded to 'jump'. It can easily be stopped if problematic , after all.
Your Dad can help you in this ,surely- as a long time sufferer. What does he recommend?- you will be like him in a few years- so listen up!
Wow! Seems like a good medical response for a first attack.
It may not be gout- but your attack site is difficult to take a fluid sample from for crystal analysis– so if you stop AlloP you will see from SUA level , if liikely heading for another attack.
Diuretics can take a while to clear the system, in my experience ,as far as BP building up- but if they are the cause of gout, you are in a good position to prove this more quickly.
It all seems rather fast ,otherwise. You do risk another attack stopping AlloP- but it does seem pre-emptive to come in so hard on one attack.
What was your initial SUA reading?
Well CJ, the report (looked high level) was from italy. Maybe they have better monitoring there- or maybe it's just kept quiet eleswhere.
I have noticed that overall , the drug co's generally underestimate the reactions to drugs ( on labels). Over time when people see others getting similar reactions I think they tend to report it it more- but not necessarily to the proper authorities. I've seen drugs called up as having say, a 5% side effect reported generally (online) as being 50- 100% incidence in practice- but this probably at varied levels to be fair. Risk v. Benefit again.
Quite a few accounts on this forum where side effects have played a part. Yes- about 10% + certainly.
The more useful a drug- the more side effects, often enough!
The article mentions non-sense changes (breaks) to human DNA way back. I suppose it's possible that in a world where fruit and berries became extremely short supply the only effective survivors genetically would be those keeping back extra anti -oxidants ie: in the form of UA!
This could indeed tip the balance in overall health level after a climatic catastrophe- especially as we're looking at a time when human life span was barely more than reproducive years + a few more if you were lucky -and not male.
Makes sense, when you think about it.Females don't usually suffer from gout till after the menopause.
People just weren't living long enough to get gout- now we pay back our forebears when the world is well overcrowded …aint justice wonderful?
BTW: This drug seems mainly of use after cancer therapy has caused a surge in UA.
Rasburicase
Interesting! This is a potent drug against tophi , though expensive and not easy to administer.
Following your links got me this excellent hyperuricemia overview:
http://www.medsci.org/v04p0083.htm
which includes the snippet..
Although allopurinol is usually well tolerated, it may cause adverse effects that need a discontinuous use, in about 20% of patients. [49] Oxipurinol inhibits xanthine oxidase too and is an alternative to allopurinol, but an allergy to allopurinol is a contraindication to its use, owing to cross-allergies between them. [50]
I didn't realise reaction to AlloP was so common.
However this article qoutes it , with alkalisation- as the normal approach to tophi.
Can't say Utube! The main thing is your AlloP is going OK and nothing is actually getting worse.
Time is a great healer, apart from |Gout ,that is
Best to double check! These minor oddities can sometimes be nothing, but once flagged up- it's easy to check for peace of mind and treatment is easy in the early stages. from what Zip said, Lymes can lie 'doggo' for a long time.
Over use of steroids can thin the skin- so not a long term solution anyway.
Let us know results in any case ..
I've been experimenting for a while on this natural remedy angle. Recently, both big toe joints , the site of numerous previous attacks ,were starting to signal their presence in the evening and morning. I did the BBb which I think can help- but the niggles went on. I am back on 2 low dose diuretics for BP again, as I need them. They are not helpful with gout though!
Now that fresh cherries are not available -I 've been using bottled [too washed out and plenty of sweet fluid to avoid] – so back to the next thing Cherry Jam-
I've been piling on the Morello based compote with bread, yoghurt and cereals as much as possible. It seems to have helped as today things are eased off noticeably. I did note that this cherry [Lidl's] was quite tart in taste and I wonder if this acidity is an indicator of its' usefulness for Gout.
There's no doubt that Cherries are well regarded dietary wise for gout and though admitting they can be a big variable as to quality and efficacy- it's worth doing a bit of research on sources for these and persisting. Every little bit helps in this search for stable SUA and quiesent joints.
Maybe OP, by now -your drug therapy has eased matters , anyway?
Likely, 'the creek' gives the biggest clue !
I've had Lyme type reactiion from a mozzie bite at the coast where some big beasts were flying. Took antibiotic to get rid of the patch, about 1cm dia. after 2 weeks.
Very little other effects fortunately, but rash [on hand] was persistent.
Yours sounds stable, but these minor events can be worrying- especially if with non specific feeling of unwellness. If the Gout treatment is progressing OK I would sit it out. If it's something in your system- topical applications are not going to have a lot of effect.
I believe Lyme Disease is getting more common, possibly due to Global warming- and it bears keeping an eye on.
Well, just to update
I am back on alternate days use of Bendrothiazide as Lasix worsens tinnitus and I don't want 'too deaf' – a risk! So I take 2.5 mg Benzofluthiazide one day- and than only 20mg Furosemide the other day- otherwise I can't keep a grip on BP. I take the Losartan that day and the other day- the DRB. Add in the Beta Blocker and Alpha Blocker (very low dose) and there it is.
I disagreed with your post elsewhere about HyperT being somewhat overrated- I know I need to work all the time to keep it from running high. Stress reduction has helped and I am aware that drug therapy is a two edged sword- like for gout.I agree the medics see it as a solid 'earner'!
If I could predict the flare profile I could expect i would even risk starting AlloP – but I have my hands full at present with joint attack aftermath and flu recovery.
Multi drug therapy for BP is very common, btw.
Can Gout Cause Tinnitus media?
[image courtesy Mayo]Dan, you 've probably sampled BBB by now- so you will know it has a rather bland & earthy taste.
I find it best in Tomato+Herb soup, when bought normally far too salty anyway, so 50 /50 does the trick with some added raw garlic- & not overcooked is a good move.
I find it quite pleasant, actually- especially with some homemade Spelt toast. Mmmmm…..
Dairy is considered OK with Gout!
Don't leave it on the joint too long 🙂
and use home made, using low fat milk too! Watch waistline.
@ GP: Equally clearly, as the different types of alcohol give different values, the link cannot simply be alcohol.
The whole point of my original discussion was to highlight this fact.
Obviously there is a difference in the carrier of the alcohol in each variarion and if wine carries its own protector- so be it.
Nowhere have I suggested a ban on alcohol and to keep mixing the two issues of 'relative harm to gout' and 'absolute stoppage' is obscuring discourse here.
To separate into 3 threads is just making things worse- and solely to avoid a rather harsh opinion from Ben?
If Beer is bad for gout then people reporting it again and again may be statistics- but it's also called reality.
